Teeworlds Friends

Zitat von »unknown«

Zitat von »Miku«

In Block versuche ich immer die Noobs zu retten, und dem zu helfen. Aber dann meinen die Wannabe Pro's mit ihren ultra spinnen mich blocken zu müssen und mich als Helper beschimpfen :c.

es nervt ja auch -.-

Aber trz, die verlieren auch ihren Spaß. Und was sollen die den tuen? wenn ein noob in eine 1on1 gelegenheit mit ein erfahreren Spieler kommt, versucht der zu fliehen oder irgendwie sich zu beschützen.

Zitat von »Miku«

Zitat von »unknown«

Zitat von »Miku«

In Block versuche ich immer die Noobs zu retten, und dem zu helfen. Aber dann meinen die Wannabe Pro's mit ihren ultra spinnen mich blocken zu müssen und mich als Helper beschimpfen :c.

es nervt ja auch -.-

Aber trz, die verlieren auch ihren Spaß. Und was sollen die den tuen? wenn ein noob in eine 1on1 gelegenheit mit ein erfahreren Spieler kommt, versucht der zu fliehen oder irgendwie sich zu beschützen.

bin ich der einzige der nicht weiß was block ist? wtf


dunno, als ich neu in vanilla war hatte ich wirklich kein problem mit flamern oder arroganten leuten. die paar idioten kann man einfach ignorieren oder nicht so ernst nehmen D:

Also ich war als nicht Vanilla Spieler auch ständig aufm Evil TS wegen Basti


IHR HABT MICH GEHASST

ABEER WAR VOLL LUSTIG



Ich hab Seite 3 nniccht geleseen sry :C

@Jambi*: lol

Zitat von »dIeD«

dunno, als ich neu in vanilla war hatte ich wirklich kein problem mit flamern oder arroganten leuten. die paar idioten kann man einfach ignorieren oder nicht so ernst nehmen D:

ich glaub das is nochmal anders, weil du aus ner anderen pro szene kamst und nicht son lappen warst wie so oberneulinge, die das game das erste mal zocken :D

Hallo Leute,

Ich verstehe Deutsch ein bißchen, aber es war so lange, daß ich nicht geschreiben habe, daß ich mich nicht richtig ausdrücken kann... So I hope you'll allow me to use English. Feel free to reply in German, and I will understand or ask someone for clarification.

I have read all the replies here so far and I see that, both here and on official forums, the direction the discussion took is how Vanilla players are arrogant and how many players were put off from playing Vanilla because of it. So I will first address the issue of arrogance.

About arrogance

To be honest, I did not expect this reaction, mostly because I believe things have changed in the last year: many of the players that were considered as flamers (Hurricane, bsn, vico, etc) have been gone for a while (Hurri is still around but does not talk :p). I understand the topic here also ran around the fact whether I was an arrogant prick or not. Well, I admit that I have my moments when I'm arrogant, but I don't think I'm more arrogant than the average online person (Teeworlds or not, Vanilla or not). Everyone can sound arrogant when you don't hear their tone and read them with your current feelings.

Arrogance is one thing. Being friendly is another. I am generally neither overly friendly nor talkative. I don't want to chat over TW, and I rarely like to chat with people I don't know. People can feel this as arrogance, but it's just that when I'm in Teeworlds I'm either here to play, or afk. If I chat, it's generally because I have something specific to talk about with someone, and when someone comes at me with something specific I generally answer.
However, I believe I am welcoming and have made efforts to compensate the unwelcoming side of the Vanilla community that I despise: I hate banning people who don't know CapGame rules, try to explain them the situation, and I always unban people being kicked by unfair votes when I can. I try to be fair even with people I might dislike.

Now I understand that this arrogance makes joining the community a very unpleasant experience. I always tried to fight it. In Qi we tried to have I believe a respectful attitude (even if it's not always easy towards some people who are themselves unrespectful) and while I wasn't particularly friendly, others among us were: Huskil, Drako or Bass always were very outgoing representative members of our community. I'm saying that now just so you realize that like any other community, there are different people with different attitude. In Qi I believe only kyu was excessively rough and I tried to reason him many times.

So now where did most of the arrogance come from? It wasn't here in the start with clans like Chatkillaz or pAn!k or QS. It came later. It came from younger, less mature members of the community. We hated it as well. We were insulted, and flamed as well. Many players of the time left because of it.

These days, it is much better in terms of egos. Obviously, in Vanilla, the best players consider skill as the cardinal dimension of a player. You can be nice and everything, but "game"-respect is gained through demonstration of skill. It is the same in other communities, but because of the big difference, during a game, that a small skill difference makes, it is felt more strongly.

I understand, reading the reaction, that I should addressed that more clearly in my original post. That among the core reasons of Vanilla's dying was the experience of many players with respect of that attitude. I will edit my post later to address this. New blood didn't come (or stay) merely because they didn't feel they could compete, but because they were put off by the attitude. This attitude exists elsewhere but was worse in Vanilla. I bring you good news, it is a bit better now, but some players still have bad reflexes.

These last years I used to join many Vanilla servers under fake names to see the reaction of people and they were pretty much awful. If that's any satisfaction to you victims of flamers, I got us a sweet revenge most times

Now, onto the actual proposal

Even if the behavior of the Vanilla players was bad, people could have made a "counter-community" if they liked Vanilla. I guess there are two things at hand for those who left Vanilla for mods: (1) They also liked other mods a lot, so had no problem leaving Vanilla completely , (2) They were alone when they left, and had no significant support/traction to start a "counter-community".

My proposal now is for those who would like to play Vanilla with their rules, at their level, with their good attitude: We will help you start your community, give you servers you control, and we will leave you alone if you wish. We will even propose you training sessions against us if you like.

If you are interested, you can export your community (e.g, Instagib, etc) with its attitude and advantages to Vanilla.

As of today, Vanilla has this layout:

• A bunch of very low-level players, most likely young children
• CTF5 players who play only CTF5 as if it was some kind of mod
• The dying high-level community now spanning over ctf1/ctf2/ctf3 and dm1

The proposal should help start the dearly missing mid-level community and allow normal players (including casual players) to enjoy the standard Teeworlds game. If it were to happen, at one point I imagine some of the new players would become very good Vanilla players, just like players of the low-level community would join the mid-level as they improve, and the borders between the three communities would vanish.

About new Teeworlds versions

I also happen to be a TW dev (and one of the few who try to motivate other developers to code, as I am trying you to join Vanilla).

I read here and elsewhere that what Vanilla needs is a new Teeworlds version. I agree it will help. But no one is motivated to make it happen, because the game Teeworlds developers make is Vanilla TW. And very few players still play that game.
There is thus no motivation from developers to code on a game no one plays.

We want to add some new gametypes, but that fit with TW vanilla. Most likely LastManStanding (previously Survival, with some gameplay improvements) and Domination, maybe Race might be added in the next version, as well as server-side statistics and some other features. I don't know yet about moving platforms, because they add an element of randomness (even if the moving itself is not random) to the game, but I guess this is similar to the fake "pickup" randomness, so why not. Case in point: developers need motivation too, and it is brought by players playing their game.

In any case, thanks at least for participating in the discussion, and excuse me again for spoiling your forums with English. If someone wants to translate, have a go at it.

Zitat von »Magnet«

We want to add some new gametypes, but that fit with TW vanilla. Most likely LastManStanding (previously Survival, with some gameplay improvements) and Domination, maybe Race might be added in the next version, as well as server-side statistics and some other features. I don't know yet about moving platforms, because they add an element of randomness (even if the moving itself is not random) to the game, but I guess this is similar to the fake "pickup" randomness, so why not.

domination would be awesome!
There was a mod in 0.5.x (or 0.4.x?) where everybody spawns with every weapon. There are no pickups on the map, neither weapons nor health. When you die, you have to wait til the round is over and only one last player is alive. It was on a special (kinda ugly as far as i remember) map and had a weird name. i would love to see that map EDIT: and mod! again.
EDITEDIT: kukurice!! <3 thx jambi

as i said before, please don't do anything with moving platforms, it would really destroy the gameplay.
one thing many mods could benefit from are tilted tiles where players can "slide" down, but can't walk back up. i'm not sure if that would actually help vanilla, but i think it's worth a try. it would also make DDRace and other mods much more interesting.

Als ich vor 5 Jahren mit Teeworlds angefangen habe, hab ich direkt mit Insta gestartet, da hatte man einfach mehr Erfolgserlebnisse, weil ja jeder Noob da früher oder später mal ein paar Kills macht.
Später bin ich dann einfach in der Mod geblieben und habe nie ernsthaft versucht meinen Skill auf andere Mods zu übertragen. Man kannte dann einfach die Leute, man ist besser geworden, hatte seine Maps etc.

Damals hatte ich ja auch an dem Marines Projekt teilgenommen, das war ein Clan von guten Vanilla Spielern, die Beginnern eine Chance geben wollten mit der Mod vertraut zu werden. Anfangs lief auch alles gut und ich hatte Spaß. Vor allem die Matches auf Ctf2 und 3 mit mehreren Spielern haben mir gefallen. Aber irgendwie hatte ich kein richtiges Gemeinschaftsgefühl in dem Clan, zwischen den Spielern war immer nichts los. Ich hasse so etwas und deswegen bin ich dann auch öfter zurück auf die Instaserver gegangen.

Die Arroganz hatte mir damals wenig ausgemacht, finde in Instagib ist es mindestens genauso schlimm (ja ich weiß ich bin auch Teil der Flamer). Finde solche Sachen eher lustig und unterhaltsam, kann mir aber natürlich auch vorstellen, dass es viele Neulinge sehr abschreckt.

Als Einzelner ist es für mich viel zu aufwendig in ein Capgame zu kommen, habe keine Lust zu betteln um mit der "Elite" spielen zu dürfen. Also gehe ich lieber auf den Insta save Server um meinen Score zu verbessern.
Auf den Vanilla Ctf5 Servern spiele ich auch manchmal, aber das macht nicht soviel Spaß, weil da meistens nur komplette Anfänger sind.


Im Spiel habe ich dann große Probleme die vielen verschiedenen Waffen zu koordinieren, habe zwar schon Waffenbinds, finde es aber trotzdem noch schwer immer die richtige zu wählen. Auch das Hooken und gleichzeitig schießen finde ich nicht so einfach. Da ich fast ausschließlich insta spiele, kann ich nicht so gut mit den anderen Waffen umgehen.
Das Ganze könnte man natürlich ganz einfach durch viel spielen erlernen, aber durch die oben genannten Punkte habe ich nun mal nicht die Lust dazu.


Zum Schluss wollte ich noch sagen, dass ich die Idee/das Projekt gut finde und Magnet viel Erfolg damit wünsche. Das Problem ist nur, dass diese Ideen/Projekte meistens auf positive Kritik stoßen, sich im Endeffekt allerdings doch nichts tut.

Zitat von »Eddi«

The day, Matricks left teeworlds-developement, teeworlds died.

teeworlds war schon lange davor tot. das war lediglich die beerdigung. #philosophy

deshalb schlage ich vor, das ab jetzt kollektiv Fly gespielt wird

Magnet hat mich irgendwie dazu gebracht mit Vanilla anzufangen. Ist zwar saulange her dass ich für's letzte mal Teeworlds gespielt hab aber warum nicht.

werd auchma vorbeischauen

Zitat von »Jester«

Zitat von »Magnet«

We want to add some new gametypes, but that fit with TW vanilla. Most likely LastManStanding (previously Survival, with some gameplay improvements) and Domination, maybe Race might be added in the next version, as well as server-side statistics and some other features. I don't know yet about moving platforms, because they add an element of randomness (even if the moving itself is not random) to the game, but I guess this is similar to the fake "pickup" randomness, so why not.

as i said before, please don't do anything with moving platforms, it would really destroy the gameplay.

Why would it destroy the gameplay? I think, it would be an huge improvement for all Mods and tw by itself.. More possibilities for mapping, a whole new level of strategic things.
And remember you don't have to play only maps with moving plattforms.. You have the choice.. I just think, it's also a feature to get more new and inactive players back to the game and maybe also back to good old Vanilla and Insta.
The current Vanilla is surely good balanced, but it is so freakin old, that it became so god damn boring... Everytime the same Maps, many skilled players, and some of them are just offending the newbies: That are just the community-based problems, no one will be ever get rid off (For example Instagib has the same problems..)
New map-respective features could be a new challenge, an appeal and an improvement for all players without disrupt the actual gameplay (For example fpr Vanilla--->Only the maps change, but you still fight with all weapons, hearts and shields you can find against your opponent..)

Zitat von »Thees«

And remember you don't have to play only maps with moving plattforms.. You have the choice..

If there's a choice, no pro vanilla player will ever switch to the new maps. the result are two different groups of vanilla players, old pro players on the old maps, and new players on the new maps. i don't see how that will improve the current situation.

Zitat von »Jester«

Zitat von »Thees«

And remember you don't have to play only maps with moving plattforms.. You have the choice..

If there's a choice, no pro vanilla player will ever switch to the new maps. the result are two different groups of vanilla players, old pro players on the old maps, and new players on the new maps. i don't see how that will improve the current situation.

Nope, your way of thinking is just black and white//old and new//old pro players on the old maps and new players on the new maps.
Why can't a old pro player try new maps out and like them afterwards,in your opinion? Or why can't a new player play on old and new maps?
And why would "no pro vanilla player ever switch to new maps?"
Your arguments are invalid darling <3 :*

Like I said, map-respective improvements were a new challenge for the players, mappers get more possibilities and so on (just read my last post and pls answer my last question, if you can: "Why would moving plattform destroy the game?" pls argmuents, no more blabla and chitchat)

Zitat von »Thees«

Zitat von »Jester«

Zitat von »Thees«

And remember you don't have to play only maps with moving plattforms.. You have the choice..

If there's a choice, no pro vanilla player will ever switch to the new maps. the result are two different groups of vanilla players, old pro players on the old maps, and new players on the new maps. i don't see how that will improve the current situation.

Nope, your way of thinking is just black and white//old and new//old pro players on the old maps and new players on the new maps.
Why can't a old pro player try new maps out and like them afterwards,in your opinion? Or why can't a new player play on old and new maps?
And why would "no pro vanilla player ever switch to new maps?"
Your arguments are invalid darling <3 :*

Like I said, map-respective improvements were a new challenge for the players, mappers get more possibilities and so on (just read my last post and pls answer my last question, if you can: "Why would moving plattform destroy the game?" pls argmuents, no more blabla and chitchat)

Stop trying to think logical, it's the same reason for Dota 2 players to dislike LoL, because it was something new and they didn't even bother playing it, they just hated it from the beginning, ofcourse it is the same the other way around.
Or why do you think some subcultures hate each other? Because they aren't open to new stuff, they wanna stick to their old and reliable stuff, for example a Hip-Hopper would probaly never bother to look into the Emo-Scene a bit more to understand why they act or dress the way they do.

Zitat von »s p o o n«

Zitat von »Thees«

Zitat von »Jester«

Zitat von »Thees«

And remember you don't have to play only maps with moving plattforms.. You have the choice..

If there's a choice, no pro vanilla player will ever switch to the new maps. the result are two different groups of vanilla players, old pro players on the old maps, and new players on the new maps. i don't see how that will improve the current situation.

Nope, your way of thinking is just black and white//old and new//old pro players on the old maps and new players on the new maps.
Why can't a old pro player try new maps out and like them afterwards,in your opinion? Or why can't a new player play on old and new maps?
And why would "no pro vanilla player ever switch to new maps?"
Your arguments are invalid darling <3 :*

Like I said, map-respective improvements were a new challenge for the players, mappers get more possibilities and so on (just read my last post and pls answer my last question, if you can: "Why would moving plattform destroy the game?" pls argmuents, no more blabla and chitchat)

Stop trying to think logical, it's the same reason for Dota 2 players to dislike LoL, because it was something new and they didn't even bother playing it, they just hated it from the beginning, ofcourse it is the same the other way around.
Or why do you think some subcultures hate each other? Because they aren't open to new stuff, they wanna stick to their old and reliable stuff, for example a Hip-Hopper would probaly never bother to look into the Emo-Scene a bit more to understand why they act or dress the way they do.

Stop trying to compare the communities of Dota 2 and LoL and their relation with a possible, but not definitely scenario of Tw Vanilla...

Zitat von »Thees«

Nope, your way of thinking is just black and white//old and new//old pro players on the old maps and new players on the new maps.
Why can't a old pro player try new maps out and like them afterwards,in your opinion? Or why can't a new player play on old and new maps?
And why would "no pro vanilla player ever switch to new maps?"
Your arguments are invalid darling <3 :*

because it's always like that. i've seen it happen multiple times. there is no reason for them to move forwards, because they like it how it is. they are good because they played it for a long time, and they played it for a long time because they always liked it. so why change? that only means starting from 0, and pros don't like that.

Zitat von »s p o o n«

Zitat von »Thees«

Zitat von »Jester«

Zitat von »Thees«

And remember you don't have to play only maps with moving plattforms.. You have the choice..

If there's a choice, no pro vanilla player will ever switch to the new maps. the result are two different groups of vanilla players, old pro players on the old maps, and new players on the new maps. i don't see how that will improve the current situation.

Nope, your way of thinking is just black and white//old and new//old pro players on the old maps and new players on the new maps.
Why can't a old pro player try new maps out and like them afterwards,in your opinion? Or why can't a new player play on old and new maps?
And why would "no pro vanilla player ever switch to new maps?"
Your arguments are invalid darling <3 :*

Like I said, map-respective improvements were a new challenge for the players, mappers get more possibilities and so on (just read my last post and pls answer my last question, if you can: "Why would moving plattform destroy the game?" pls argmuents, no more blabla and chitchat)

Stop trying to think logical, it's the same reason for Dota 2 players to dislike LoL, because it was something new and they didn't even bother playing it, they just hated it from the beginning, ofcourse it is the same the other way around.
Or why do you think some subcultures hate each other? Because they aren't open to new stuff, they wanna stick to their old and reliable stuff, for example a Hip-Hopper would probaly never bother to look into the Emo-Scene a bit more to understand why they act or dress the way they do.

Dota didnt like LoL because of their Dev i think not because it was another dota tho


and there is no fucking emo scene