Teeworlds Friends

Zitat von »Jester«

Zitat von »Thees«

Nope, your way of thinking is just black and white//old and new//old pro players on the old maps and new players on the new maps.
Why can't a old pro player try new maps out and like them afterwards,in your opinion? Or why can't a new player play on old and new maps?
And why would "no pro vanilla player ever switch to new maps?"
Your arguments are invalid darling <3 :*

because it's always like that. i've seen it happen multiple times. there is no reason for them to move forwards, because they like it how it is. they are good because they played it for a long time, and they played it for a long time because they always liked it. so why change? that only means starting from 0, and pros don't like that.

We, in our conversation right now (not the main discussion started by magnet), are talking about map-changes and improvements... not freaking how to improve the whole vanilla-thing and make it new...

so unfamiliar reading something in (proper) english @ twf

Hi eddi,

Thanks for your answer. Competitive/high-level gaming has always attracted these personalities. It's not specific to Teeworlds and you will find them in other competitive mods. There is a correlation with being a over achiever ("wanting to be the best") and being a sad, human being with complexes, that will make anything to make others more miserable than he is. But there are other type of personalities attracted to high-level for other reasons. I don't like to lose, but my motivation is to try my best rather than winning at all cost. Like many people I just like the adrenaline in Teeworlds.

That being said, I get your point. There were some players with a bad "past" in Qi, but I never saw RUS or Default misbehave while in Qi. I was very reluctant to have him join because of his behavior, so you cannot say that skill was the only thing we looked at when recruiting players. That's how other clans did, but in Qi we looked at the behavior and I think that, upon joining Qi, RUS's behavior improved dramatically. With kyu it is different, he grew bitter with time but it has nothing to do with Qi, he just lost patience.

Now, you tell me that people were banned so players could have a cap game. It's true, and I don't like it now, didn't like it back then. When we tried to talk to them, most didn't talk back. Actually most people seemed to newbish to just talk in Teeworlds even if we told them how. After a while we got tired of explaining and used more drastic measures, but it's not something I like. Now most players who wanted to play, played in the end. These were clanservers, their clan, their rules. Why didn't these people go to other servers and have their captain games? The server was full with specs who could have played. (actually, at the better times, we had several good games running concurrently).

But once again, I don't know why we're still talking about that. I get it, a lot of you guys are bitter of the arrogance and behavior that was exposed in the past. What I'm trying to do now, I've been wanting to do for years, even back then, but I didn't find time or I was too lazy. I'm trying to do it now and I get shit for what happened 3-4 years ago, fair enough. But maybe we can move on?

As for Teeworlds dev and matricks, you're probably right, but that's how things are and we have plans that we will make happen if we find the motivation and if we see the game is being played.

Today Vanilla was ok, it was fun to play with polite players like you Sonix and so on, but as you saw there are other dudes from the "elitist group" who don't want new players to join...

Ich hab Vanilla erst nach 3 Jahren Teeworlds gefunden(Wortwörtlich)... Davor kannte ich eigentlich nur Mods. Nicht das ich Mods nicht mag, bis auf Insta natürlich, aber für mich liegts schon an Mods, weil sie was neues bringen und es immer neue Maps gibt. Ctf3 hängt mir zum Hals raus und ctf2 wird nicht oft gespielt. Selbst wenn, dann gibts immer noch nur 2 Maps die gespielt werden und eine davon ist eine Dreck.

Zitat von »unknown«

Today Vanilla was ok, it was fun to play with polite players like you Sonix and so on, but as you saw there are other dudes from the "elitist group" who don't want new players to join...

It's not that they don't want unknown, you can't put everyone in the same bag. Some are just trolls and will just troll no matter what. Others just want the most competitive game, so they want to play with and against the best available players (that's also why captain games were invented: to have balanced, competitive games other than clan wars, because a clan might be too strong for its opponents and it makes games unbalanced).

I also had fun playing with you and I think most people had a pretty good time. My proposal was not to tell you guys: "come Vanilla one day, we'll have a game, then we resume to old habits and you go back to where you're from." Our community as it stands is flawed and I tried to fix it from within and it never worked. We used to have some very good public games, but since we introduced captain games most players simply refuse to play seriously during public games and prevent them happening (by joining and chatting all the time and simply going afk, so every public games ends up in an unbalanced mess).

Tonight was exceptional because we made it happen this way, but if the wrong players had been there, they would have prevented this from happening. I told you, our community is flawed, we try to fix it, but it is very unwelcoming to newcomers.

The actual plan is to create a new, separate community that *you* guys control. Something we can't spoil and where you make your rules. A place where you could setup games with other newcomers in TW or transfuges from other mods without reproducing our flaws. Then, little by little, we would be likely to merge but on more equal terms.

If pixel and you liked the game tonight, you can of course come for more and you will be welcome. At first some players will be rude, as in "who the fuck are you", but once they see your name a few times they will start to talk to you.

Or, and I believe it would be better, if you have more in-game friends who would be ready to make the move, without necessarily giving up on your other mods (insta etc), we could help you get in shape, find someone to provide you a server, and you could invite other players with the same background over there to play.

Finally, pixel and you asked some questions on CTF strategies earlier, yesterday I have posted a guide that could help you (it answers what an attacker is supposed to do, and why the base defender has priority on the shotgun :-): https://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=10689

In any case, I hope to see you in-game, on Vanilla or insta (I also play other mods, I play iCTFsave quite often for warmup & aim training)

Zitat von »onkelz«

Ich hab Vanilla erst nach 3 Jahren Teeworlds gefunden(Wortwörtlich)... Davor kannte ich eigentlich nur Mods. Nicht das ich Mods nicht mag, bis auf Insta natürlich, aber für mich liegts schon an Mods, weil sie was neues bringen und es immer neue Maps gibt. Ctf3 hängt mir zum Hals raus und ctf2 wird nicht oft gespielt. Selbst wenn, dann gibts immer noch nur 2 Maps die gespielt werden und eine davon ist eine Dreck.

Onkelz, there are more maps that some of us like (I like many more maps) but it's difficult even for me to convince players to play on other maps. It's really a shame. A lot of active players even dislike ctf2, since they were "born" on ctf3, a map I tolerate but that is too much of a melee/close-combat map for my tastes.

I really like the maps Ubu made: ctf_space, ctf_lava and master_exploder. I also like a bunch of maps that were made by cin/BeaR, and of course by Sonix (hi!). We have some of these on the ÆON's server and some of them are available through vote at EVIL's clanserver. However, if you guys had your own server(s), you could be free to play more maps. I would certainly like a community playing more maps, I want variety as well.

persönliche meinung: bei vanilla fehlen mir einfach die wallshots und das mit mehreren leben is auch nich so meins..
deswegen insta > vanilla..

aber coolio wenn ihrs wieder aktivitatutatoren möchtet

Well Magnet, I stopped Teeworlds again(I, Cartman, am sharing this account with someone else) because it is so boring compared to LoL or Dota 2. Audiopush, died, spyeye, stonerz, deadalien, L, basically everyone from g6, bombi, Zandyz, Sevix, Jordane, Light, Prozac, Milos(I know he is still playing but most of the others would play too if LoL stopped for ever), Bass, etc... Pro scene leaves because there is no change. I hate ctf3 so much at the moment because I played it way too often. There is no one left for ctf2 but still only ctf2 would be boring as well. You saw the capgames when LoL had downtimes. Many of them were there. died checks this forum and evil forum regularly although not playing. I would like to have something like a ranked system to motivate new players to start vanilla. There will be at least some new guys who want to be at the top. Think of these random deathmatch or ctf5 servers. There would be enough new guys. New maps for the old players. Just my opinion. Have not read your post as I probably agree anyway with the thigns you say. \o/

Zitat von »onkelz«

Well Magnet, I stopped Teeworlds again(I, Cartman, am sharing this account with someone else) because it is so boring compared to LoL or Dota 2. Audiopush, died, spyeye, stonerz, deadalien, L, basically everyone from g6, bombi, Zandyz, Sevix, Jordane, Light, Prozac, Milos(I know he is still playing but most of the others would play too if LoL stopped for ever), Bass, etc... Pro scene leaves because there is no change. I hate ctf3 so much at the moment because I played it way too often. There is no one left for ctf2 but still only ctf2 would be boring as well. You saw the capgames when LoL had downtimes. Many of them were there. died checks this forum and evil forum regularly although not playing. I would like to have something like a ranked system to motivate new players to start vanilla. There will be at least some new guys who want to be at the top. Think of these random deathmatch or ctf5 servers. There would be enough new guys. New maps for the old players. Just my opinion. Have not read your post as I probably agree anyway with the thigns you say. \o/

Pro scene leaves like everyone .. I know what you say. We need more diversity, we need matchmaking. We know that. But I'm not thinking only of the pro-scene. I'm thinking of Vanilla Teeworlds in general, as in "the game Teeworlds as it was designed". It needs players other than the pro scene. Many, "normal" players, not over achievers. It needs to strive and the pro scene should be just a small part of that community.

If and when there is a lot of activity on Vanilla servers, at all levels, the devs (and I include me) will feel very motivated to make these changes happen. But as of now, it's hard to motivate yourself to make a dying game evolve. The day I made the post, Oy resumed merging pull-requests (as in: he worked on TW for the first time since a few months). He liked my post, because he likes the energy and wants like everyone to see the game striving.

Of course I'd like many former pros to come back, and I don't like seeing you guys leaving for LoL or Dota (that I consider very different games; TW is "pure" and well suited to casual: simple rules, complex results. It's also one of the fastest-paced games over there). But the main focus here is not the pro scene, it is TW's general Vanilla Scene: players who play and enjoy Vanilla at all levels and on different maps, organizing balanced games and having fun. You can still have a lot of fun on TW, nothing changed, and many players never experienced the fun of well-balanced, mid/high CTF games.

But I told you, we want variety too: we will have new official maps and new official gametypes, both made suitable from low to competitive levels. Finally, we have some ideas of slight gameplay additions but there won't be a lot and they will not affect all games (e.g, the ctf2 or dm1 experience will not change).

Zitat von »Thees«

We, in our conversation right now (not the main discussion started by magnet), are talking about map-changes and improvements... not freaking how to improve the whole vanilla-thing and make it new...

i know.

what about some ladder system? (not esl ect, stand-alone one)
not some future-rich shit, just some website where you can sign up your clan/squad and challenge other opponents (no previously-scheduled battles, Team A challenge and fights Team B, Team A wins and earn e.g. 3 points which positions the team in the ladder)

Zitat von »pixe1«

what about some ladder system? (not esl ect, stand-alone one)
not some future-rich shit, just some website where you can sign up your clan/squad and challenge other opponents (no previously-scheduled battles, Team A challenge and fights Team B, Team A wins and earn e.g. 3 points which positions the team in the ladder)

sounds lile evils clanzone

Zitat von »DerHase«

Zitat von »pixe1«

what about some ladder system? (not esl ect, stand-alone one)
not some future-rich shit, just some website where you can sign up your clan/squad and challenge other opponents (no previously-scheduled battles, Team A challenge and fights Team B, Team A wins and earn e.g. 3 points which positions the team in the ladder)

sounds lile evils clanzone

Which is dead already

Zitat von »s p o o n«

Zitat von »DerHase«

Zitat von »pixe1«

what about some ladder system? (not esl ect, stand-alone one)
not some future-rich shit, just some website where you can sign up your clan/squad and challenge other opponents (no previously-scheduled battles, Team A challenge and fights Team B, Team A wins and earn e.g. 3 points which positions the team in the ladder)

sounds lile evils clanzone

Which is dead already

I haven't even heard about it..
There should be something official for that. If I knew about that "clanzone" before, I would have joined for sure, as I love ranking systems and/or leveling up in games.

yeah, first time I hear about something like this

@Magnet: Yeah I agree and I just wanted to explain why those guys switched to LoL(and I am still cartman:D).

If there was something like a ranked system in Teeworlds not everyone would be pro(LoL pros in highest leagues are like 0.1% of community or even less) and I think more casual Teeworlds players would actually see that there is a higher level that they can and maybe even want to reach.
I actually do not play ranked in LoL(but a big amount of the player base does) but there I can find the diversity that is missing in Vanilla. Even LoL has got 3 well made maps and 1 shitmap which is more than maps played in Vanilla(really sad actually) and guess what. If EUW is not down again you can actually find a match in 20 seconds to 5 minutes with most of the time equaly skilled teams(smurfs make the matchmaking harder to be accurate). How long does it take to find a funwar or even worse start a capgame with 16 players? Have got Zandyz, Milos or someone similar as captain you can just leave as it won't lead to anything anyway. Furthermore capgames have got most of the time imbalanced teams. Wasting 30 minutes to get 2 imbalanced team. Yeah sounds like fun and not wasted time. And here comes ranked system back again. It at least tries to create equally strong teams.

Additionally there needs to be botprotection especially if you want to have something like a ranked system(I know it is possible if you switch more client informations to the server but I do not really know how difficult it would be to change). By the way, skillcap of mechanics(probably won't help you much but still: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0suIFAAClvg) and especially knowledge(there is no way you can deny that:P) in LoL is higher than in Teeworlds and in Dota 2(sorry no video here) even higher.

Coming back to diversity I was playing LoL for 7 months and came back to teeworlds this march. Still nothing new. Played 6 months of teeworlds with 3 being active(and not really playing LoL too often) while getting more and more bored resulting in me going back to LoL where tons of new things waited for me.
I know LoL is way bigger and thus it is easier to create new content but come on. What is new in teeworlds? Well, there are at least new maps I like. Tantum and some other maps that are at least decent but no one is playing on them for a reason I do not really know. It is even worse when we have training and not enough people for 5v5. There is a chance to 4v4 intern? Jambi says 4v4 is shit. There is a chance for 2v2 intern? Jambi says it is shit. Of course he would play 4v4, 2v2 funwar due to our funwar counter but I am pretty much forced to play ctf3 in intern games where we only have one pro deffer most of the times making the result of the game obvious anyway. When the rare exception occured and some ctf2 funwars happened I was already 3/4 inactive, played LoL or had no time due to reallife.

I also tried to play Fly or a custom map versus you(r clan) to get some change but you also rejected it(or at least your mates) because you do not play on custom maps(or whatever AMN wanted to say) and it was really the beginning of me switching to LoL as I was finally convinced that Teeworlds got totally boring again. Flyscene got inactive(or maybe just me :D) while not even the other last active Vanilla clan would play some custom- or flymaps with me(I know you would have played at least custom vanillamaps but that does not really help if your clanmates do not want to). Vanilla bored me anyway already as I do not want to see this ctf3 shit anymore. I know Fly is not teeish as you said but it would be at least some change from the normal teeish maps. Whatever.
People only come when there is new content which does not really work the other way round.

Falls es wen interessiert(ich weiß es ist älter):
https://www.teeworlds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=10706

Well written text Magnet. Thanks for teaching me english. I like how u described the positive aspects of vanilla and how other players coming from different mods can use their skills in vanilla.

Ur text is really impressive good. But if not everyone would kick me on vanilla servers, I would be more active in vanilla. On a normal day I ll be kicked at the average of 5-10 times.

I feel like no1 wants me in tw. I should stop playing it